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Industry Contributor 21 Nov 2022 - 5 min read

The Marketing Academy 2022 intake: NSW Customer Service's John Kerrison, Thinkerbell's Katie Dally, MediaCom's Mat Glazewski on not faking mastery, letting go of all you can't control – but always being among the doers – and why agency perks won't cut it

By John Kerrison, Katie Dally and Mat Glazewski - The Marketing Academy 2022 Scholars

As the latest Marketing Academy intake prepares to graduate, Mi3 asked the class of '22 for their take on the key lessons – and best advice in life – to date. NSW Customer Service's John Kerrison, Thinkerbell's Katie Dally and MediaCom's Mat Glazewski on managing crippling self-doubt but still turning up, understanding that once you've done your best, the rest is up to fate, how to keep teams amid a bun-fight, and that the ability to re-frame a situation gets you through the toughest spots.

Thinkers and doers (left to right): Mat Glazewski, Katie Dally and John Kerrison.

Thinkers and doers (left to right): MediaCom's Mat Glazewski, Thinkerbell's Katie Dally and NSW Customer Service Department's John Kerrison.

John Kerrison, Director of Digital Content and Channels, NSW Department of Customer Service

What’s the single most valuable insight gleaned? 

One of the profound aspects of The Marketing Academy is the invitation to explore your own leadership style in a safe yet challenging environment. TMA is about finding the human-centred leadership that comes most naturally to each of the participants. This can be daunting because breaking ingrained habits is never easy. Putting the leadership superpowers of authentic listening and gratitude into action at work has led to real change in the way I engage (and learn from) my own teams.

How to nail the TMAs entry requirements?  

Don’t fake it. The Marketing Academy prides itself on the caliber of the yearly intake so it can be misleading to expect that only the polished and successful execs get a run. The application process seeks people with potential and a genuine desire to be better. So don’t fake mastery – instead be willing to be vulnerable. Sure, put your best foot forward and celebrate your successes, but also think about why you want to be in TMA and what your own contribution could be for the industry and wider community.

Best piece of advice you’ve ever been given and why? 

I pulled out of my application process for TMA in 2020 ahead of the 2021 year because I was riddled with doubt about my legitimacy as a candidate. I think leaders are allowed to have doubt, but it’s the relationship with that doubt that matters. One fantastic bit of advice I received from a senior leader at the Department of Customer Service was about accepting that if you’ve performed at your genuine best to deliver an outcome, the resulting success or failure is still likely down to fate. Sometimes it’s your job to turn up, put on the show, and make the commitment. What comes next is up to others. The same sentiment is better captured in the words from the famous speech ‘The man in the arena’ by Theodore Roosevelt. Don’t be among those meek and timid souls on the sidelines who know neither victory nor defeat.

The greatest professional lesson you have relearned/assumption to explode? 

Despite all the best intentions, I don’t think most execs in modern business truly listen. It’s much rarer than most of us realise. Even those who claim to be active listeners are often not practicing the true art of deep listening. Workshops at TMA with recognised career coach Oscar Trimboli were profound. It takes practice to listen with an open mind and heart, and I know I still don’t get it right yet the joy of trying has changed the way I lead.

Talent crisis: What’s the impact on your teams, how to navigate (what is keeping people from moving on?) 

The workshops with TMA have been timely for my role in the NSW public sector. There is a compelling story to tell about working for the NSW public sector, and the message about workplace transformation is getting out. To be in a team in the NSW Government is no longer limited to 9-5 Monday to Friday arrangements overall. Huge reform has taken place in what it means to experience career flexibility, work from home, compressed hours, and employee tech uplift. The Marketing Academy has given me the insight and resilience to adapt to changes quickly and embrace a contemporary offering for employees. The market and community were quick to demand more options post the pandemic, and we’ve responded positively to those trends.


 

Katie Dally, General Manager, Thinkerbell

What’s the single most valuable insight gleaned? 

Rewiring that the definition of a leader is having a position of influence over anyone in your life. This has transformed my belief from leadership in a professional context to leadership in a life context. It’s a powerful thing when you realise that every interaction you have with everyone at any time could be influential – your mother, your sister, your neighbour, your colleague, your son, your friend, your boss. There is no hierarchy in this type of leadership and everyone is able. What conversation will you have with whom today that will awaken your ability as a natural born living leader?

How to nail the TMAs entry requirements?  

Be yourself (everyone else is taken) and get in front of a camera. Every successful applicant I know over recent years has had success by conveying who they are through the stories they told on film. Any written submission seemed less successful as it’s likely harder for the judges to get to know “you” through it. You only get one shot to convey who you really are, so make it count and find interesting angles that surprise and delight. Get creative, think outside of the sea of sameness

Best piece of advice you’ve ever been given and why? 

A very wise friend shared with me that: “Our attention is our most scarce resource, be wise with what you choose to focus your attention on”. Why this was meaningful to me is in an ever-increasing attention deficit economy, (thanks social media, smartphones, essentially all things tech!), I was reminded that what we choose to feed our minds with it exactly that; choice. Time is not infinite and so our attention choices should be wise and feed the mind, body and spiritual. Worm holing is not recommended and boundaries are essential to do this well.

The greatest professional lesson you have relearned/assumption to explode? 

I had to relearn to stop feeling guilty about delegating, as hoarding work meant I wasn’t giving my team a chance to grow. This is such an easy mistake to make as you progress through the ranks and takes learned practice. Initially, delegating can feel like you are burdening your team, especially in a Covid-stricken seemingly time poor world. Instead, reframing burden to giving them a chance to grow, promotes team happiness, a deep sense of trust, enabling greater contributions, more meaningful work, boosts engagement, commitment and ultimately job satisfaction.

Greatest capability gap (individually and within your teams)? 

Resilience. We all thought we were resilient, until Covid hit. Then we realised when we can’t control our circumstances and the outcome is unknown, we default to all the things we can control to get through, which for most was ploughing ourselves head down into work to keep our jobs. Hello burn out and here we are. There is much literature that suggests working adults have a fundamental misunderstanding of what it means to be resilient. Indeed, resilience involves working hard, but if COVID has taught us anything, it has taught us to stop, recover and then begin the hard work again. Recovery is the key to maintaining good health and preventing lost productivity. To build resilience we have to be willing to stop, which is why we are seeing a huge backlash to corporate rules and an employee shift of power to reimagine what the new world of work looks like. Stopping to build resilience means spending time away from your phone, proper lunch breaks and taking vacation time without checking your emails. How we navigate the road to recovered resilience over the next few years is in the hands of both employers and employees to trail-blaze together. Those who work together to solve it, will fare best, no one really has it all figured out yet, the world is watching.

Talent crisis: What’s the impact on your teams, how to navigate (what is keeping people from moving on?) 

  • The talent crisis it real, there is a shortage of exceptionally talented people and when you can’t fill open roles, the toll that takes on your existing team is intense and immense. Here are some of things I’m putting into practice to navigate the challenge as best as I can right now:
  1. Hire slow, fire fast – hiring just anyone becomes an issue later on. Maintain your standards, don’t settle to plug a gap, holding out for the right person will be worth the wait and freelance in the meantime to reduce the mental load on the team. Equally, if you know early on, you’ve made a blunder on a hire (that’s okay we are all human, we make mistakes), act quickly to call it, a misfit can have considerable cultural impact if not dealt with at speed.
  2. "Culture eats strategy for breakfast" – said Peter Ducker and he was right. Create a company people want to be a part of and like moths to a flame they will stay. Reward loyalty, contribution, worth ethic, self care and much more, essentially, just be a good employer and you will attract good people.

Communicate continuously – ensuring the team feel constantly supported, heard, and understood, particularly when under more pressure than usual is critical. Practice active listening and set up regular feedback loops.


 

Mat Glazewski, Group Planning Director, MediaCom

What’s the single most valuable insight gleaned? 

“We are most in the dark when we are most certain. We are most enlighten when most confused.” This is one of the first quotes I noted down during the TMA’s bootcamp. Getting comfortable with being uncomfortable has re-shaped my view on career progression and opportunities ahead.

How to nail the TMAs entry requirements?  

Have fun with it, be yourself and don’t be afraid to open up. Engage other people (friends, partner, colleagues, neighbours) to soundboard, brainstorm and get the creative juices flow. And give yourself time – don’t leave it to the last moment!

Best piece of advice you’ve ever been given and why? 

“Your career is not a marathon. It is a series of sprints.” Advice given by one of my mentors this year made me realise that it is okay to take a break. As simple as it sounds, it was a step change for me. I have built my entire career based on ongoing and consistent effort. Introducing short breaks in-between projects enabled me to recharge, find time to reflect and build a buffer to prevent burnout.

The greatest professional lesson you have relearned/assumption to explode? 

“Conditions are always perfect.” Ability to re-frame any challenging situation and finding a silver lining can get you through any rough spot.

Greatest capability gap (individually and within your teams)? 

We are obsessed with data and we are great at collecting, analysing, reporting, and feeding it back to the machine to ensure a ‘data driven’ approach. But few people can cut through the sea of BS and identify the data points that matter. In particular, there’s a massive disconnect between media performance and actual business outcomes. Media agencies focus too much on tactics, short-term efficiencies, and media proxies (clicks! impressions!) that are easy to quantify and report on, but do not translate into business results.

Talent crisis: What’s the impact on your teams, how to navigate (what is keeping people from moving on?) 

On a macro level, there are ~400 vacancies across major holding companies in Australia and the usual ‘media perks’ are no longer enough to attract young talent. Media agencies would need to undergo a major facelift to be considered as desirable as consulting or tech companies. On a micro level: in my experience, building teams based on trust has been by far the best long-term solution to minimise churn. It is a compounding effect of multiple factors: honest communication, professionalism, being with each other and giving flexibility on how the projects can be delivered. It is not however an easy fix, nor it is something that can be applied overnight.

What do you think?

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